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2012 140 TDI 4x4 EGR

3K views 22 replies 8 participants last post by  The Hood 
#1 ·
I am in a bit of a dilemma! I bought a 57k mile 140 TDI 4x4 Yeti in November last year, and proceeded to do around another 6000 miles in it between then and March this year. We live rurally and travel a 60 mile a day round trip to work mainly on 40 - 60 mph A & B roads. Just before the Covid19 Lockdown we took the car on its first fast motorway journey, from NE Scotland to Glasgow c140 miles, mainly on 70 mph cruise. After about 2 hours on slowing to go round a roundabout the dreaded glowplug light came on flashing, the car lost power. We limped on to our destination (about 30 miles). I have a Carista - on plugging in - we had the EGR code. I erased the code, left the car overnight. The next day we returned North (140 miles) this time at around 60-65 and we had no problems. Since lockdown the car has only covered around 400 miles over the last 3 months - only on longer drives - eg 50 mile round trip for shopping, and again no faults.

My dilemma is that in August we have to travel to South Wales plus some touring on the way back - so likely to be around 1000+ miles mostly on motorway. I don't know whether to go to the £800+ expense of having the EGR changed on the off chance of an issue and wondered if its possible that the car had short journey low rev history and on a motorway blast, it allowed the EGR to move into positions it hadn't before or for the time and at higher temperatures, perhaps causing it to stick momentarily - flagging the error? When I drove it previously, I had always stuck as close as possible to the gear change indicator. Now I rev it more up to 2k revs and more and cruise on a-roads in 5th rather than 6th, to give the EGR and turbo some work. Its hard for me to replicate the motorway conditions for a "test" to see how it might react.

I use Millers Eco-Max on every fill, oil is changed regularly - I just changed it again for a top branded low ash oil a few weeks ago. The car has had "the fix" according to the Skoda website but I don't know when. The car was bought from Arnold Clark with a 2 month warranty - and sods law this happened after this expired, but if they looked now - there is no code logged anyway!

On another note - when I read the code the Haldex Pump error also showed - turns out that was duff as well - I bought the new pump, fluid and filter kits and did that - the old one was proper clogged even despite me insisting on a haldex "service" from Skoda before purchase! I also removed the inner wing liners and under trays and also sill covers to discover rust starting in a few places plus clods of earth and grit, that I treated with Hydrate 80 and Por15 - then Dynax s50. I would definitely recommend that the undertrays are removed every couple of years and emptied as the crud sits along the sill seam!!

Cheers

Alan
 
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#2 ·
Hi Alanbp welcome to the forum. There are additives that claim to clean the egr, but the problem is that as it is exhaust gases that pass through it, any chemicals in the mix will have been burnt away before reaching it. There are others that claim to clean it by producing a very clean burn that causes the heat to gradually burn away the deposits rather than lay on more. One such thing is Archoil which is not unlike the Millars that you already use, but they do a "one shot" treatment (Archoil 6400-d max), that I use when going on a long journey. You could do a lot worse than buying a bottle putting it in the tank and going for a long journey, I add it when going to Germany and so using a full tank of fuel in one round trip.
Here is a link to a thread giving a 25% discount until this coming Friday. I have not interests or affiliation to Archoil, I just use it and stock up when they have a discount offer.
25% Archoil discount until July 17th 2020

Whatever you decide to do, cleaning or replacing the egr, afterwards it would be a good idea to have the fix "reversed" whereby an image pre emissions update is loaded onto the ecu in effect winding the clock back to just before it was "fixed". That costs around £50 and up depending on where you have it done. a Skoda dealer will not do it for you.
 
#3 ·
Hi Alan, welcome to Yetiland
I am in a bit of a dilemma! I bought a 57k mile 140 TDI 4x4 Yeti in November last year, and proceeded to do around another 6000 miles in it between then and March this year. We live rurally and travel a 60 mile a day round trip to work mainly on 40 - 60 mph A & B roads. Just before the Covid19 Lockdown we took the car on its first fast motorway journey, from NE Scotland to Glasgow c140 miles, mainly on 70 mph cruise. After about 2 hours on slowing to go round a roundabout the dreaded glowplug light came on flashing, the car lost power. We limped on to our destination (about 30 miles). I have a Carista - on plugging in - we had the EGR code. I erased the code, left the car overnight. The next day we returned North (140 miles) this time at around 60-65 and we had no problems. Since lockdown the car has only covered around 400 miles over the last 3 months - only on longer drives - eg 50 mile round trip for shopping, and again no faults.
The sensors can sometimes give false readings, or get themselves a bit confused. The EGR valve warning is usually a position warning, when the valve opening can’t reach the normal end of its travel. Hence why first action is nearly always to do what you did. Clear the offending fault code, then see how long before it returns, if ever?

I don't know whether to go to the £800+ expense of having the EGR changed on the off chance of an issue and wondered if its possible that the car had short journey low rev history and on a motorway blast, it allowed the EGR to move into positions it hadn't before or for the time and at higher temperatures, perhaps causing it to stick momentarily - flagging the error?
That sounds very plausible, to my mind anyway.

When I drove it previously, I had always stuck as close as possible to the gear change indicator. Now I rev it more up to 2k revs and more and cruise on a-roads in 5th rather than 6th, to give the EGR and turbo some work.
Good change of tactics and driving style IMO. At least for EGR Health. I’ll wager any difference in overall fuel consumption will be too infinitesimally small to detect. You may like to monitor on the instant or average consumption indicators. IF you can replicate the exact conditions for all the other variables between any two journeys?

I use Millers Eco-Max on every fill, oil is changed regularly - I just changed it again for a top branded low ash oil a few weeks ago. The car has had "the fix" according to the Skoda website but I don't know when.
The Hood beat me too it with the suggestion to try a bottle of Archoil 6400 D-max. Just before your next decent journey, where you’ll be getting through most of a tankful in one hit. Preferably on its own rather than in a tankful where you’ve already added some Millers. Just in case the additives don’t agree with each other. I did that for a 2-3 fills last time we had an EGR valve warning, not had any recurrence for around 4 years since. (Not the similarly named 6900 product mind. That’s more akin to the Millers you are using. Aimed more at keeping the pre-combustion chamber fuel injection system sweet).

I would also strongly recommend removing the Throttle Body unit (and adjacent EGR outlet nozzle where it projects into the inlet manifold) for DIY cleaning. Both are part of the same emissions control plumbing as the EGR valve itself. But both sit on the front of the EA189 diesel design, where they are much more easily reached than the EGR valve itself, on the back of the motor, under the turbo. Both those tend to accumulate soot too. So manual cleaning tends to prevent future problems developing. Both are fairly easily removed and replaced. I would say anyone with regular tools and capable of a Haynes “three spanner” level of difficulty should find them straightforward. There should be an illustrated “how to” guide covering both components in the technical or how to sections of this very forum - provided the move to a new platform a few months ago didn’t mangle it?

Also agree with The Hood’s suggestion to get the engine ECU reverted back to the “pre-NOx Fix” state. At an engine Remapper. That will reduce the amount of soot being produced during combustion, back to the levels VW engineers and designers originally anticipated. And in turn help to prolong the DPF’s life, along with all the other exhaust and EGR system’s components. Also reduce stress, wear and tear on the injectors and common rail pressure valves, etc. All the components in fact that VW were obliged to provide extended warranty terms on for cars that received the “fix” in the hands of franchised dealers. Those extensions have now all expired anyway.

On another note - when I read the code the Haldex Pump error also showed - turns out that was duff as well - I bought the new pump, fluid and filter kits and did that - the old one was proper clogged even despite me insisting on a haldex "service" from Skoda before purchase!
Regrettably that’s par for the course. :-( I read some time ago, either in here or on the Dark Side, that Skoda UK dealer Service Schedules, don’t even recognise that a Haldex oil filter or filter screens exist. Let alone that might need changing or cleaning. They just do the bare minimum of changing the oil. Hence DIY as you have done, or an independent Haldex specialist, not affiliated to a specific car assembler’s brand name, will both often do a much more thorough job of servicing than a main, franchised dealer? Think about it - What is in a new car sales dealer’s main interest? To have your car last the 500,000 miles it is capable of with proper service? Or to have you coming back to them for a new car every 3-4 years, because the car they sold you 4 years ago is knackered?

I also removed the inner wing liners and under trays and also sill covers to discover rust starting in a few places plus clods of earth and grit, that I treated with Hydrate 80 and Por15 - then Dynax s50. I would definitely recommend that the undertrays are removed every couple of years and emptied as the crud sits along the sill seam!!
With that level of DIY thoroughness - I would buy a used car from you. :) (y)
 
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#4 ·
The write up for the throttle body clean can be found here

A printable PDF which might be easier to follow can be found here

In the written thread a forum update lost all the pictures which I managed to replace, the forum then decided to replace my replacement pictures with thumbnails!!!!! The PDF was unaffected
 
#5 ·
I suffered similar just over a year ago, and I too balked at the thought of nearly £900 to replace the EGR. Turns out the garage I use, as well as 'unfixing' the engine could also delete the EGR through computer wizardry. This makes no apparent difference in emissions or durability, and is a much cheaper option.
 
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#6 ·
Thank you very much for the replies. Some excellent advice in here. I have ordered two bottles of Archoil 6400d-max which should arrive this week, I also plan on trying it out on my Rover 75 diesel tourer which has 167k miles as well- thanks for the discount code- even with the DHL scottish highlands surcharge it still worked out cheaper than the cheapest fleabay listing. I plan on stripping the throttle body today and cleaning and I have a 200 mile round trip this weekend - although mainly A-road rather than motorway so will fill up and run the Archoil through.

I looked into the deletion option but the consensus on some of the tuning forums was that by deleting the EGR on the VAG CR engines you can ultimately shorten the life of the DPF as the EGR plays a part in the regeneration cycle, and the software that controls the interaction of the EGR and the DPF etc is very complex. I don't understand all the software stuff to be honest but the idea is appealing if it does indeed work without any repercussions. I am keen on getting the "fix" reversed but need to find a local specialist that can do this.

Since owning the yeti - most of the foibles have shown themselves, the EGR, the Haldex, the paint bubbles on the doors, and the heated seat base on the drivers seat going kaput. I also had weepy leak back fuel lines - but these and the seat were fixed under warranty. I only discovered the haldex fault when there was bad snow and pulling out of an incline junction, the front wheels were scrabbling which I thought was odd, then when the EGR error arose and I read the codes - I spotted the dreaded pump code! Sadly past warranty!

One thing I notice with the Haldex is I get a slight jolt as I pull away from standstill at a junction, and this had stopped happening around the same time as the pump packed in. Now that I have repaired it - the jolt has returned. This happens in all road conditions - even dry and warm days under gentle acceleration. Anyone else have this?
 
#10 ·
The jolt is normal and results from the very slight delay before the car decides that the haldex clutch should also engage and the car starts to push forward at the rear as well
 
#12 ·
Sorry, but having used Yeti's off road for more than 10 years I have never noticed any jolt as the Haldex has come into operation. And why would it jolt when the clutches very gradually increase drive to the rear axle?
If it is operating as you suggest then it is operating incorrectly.
 
#11 ·
The haldex should only engage fully when there is a slippage on the front wheels detected via the abs sensors. It requires an anomaly of around 1/8th of a rotation of the front wheels to engage, so puling away normally should not produce a detectable jolt.
 
#13 ·
Perhaps jolt is the wrong word, I just meant that when coming out of a junction you get the feeling of a shove in the back as the rear wheels start to push forward as well momentarily after the fronts have started pulling the vehicle away.
 
#17 ·
No, pretty sure its not - because when the Haldex was knackered - the jolt/nudge stopped and I thought it was because I had adapted my driving style but it actually was the pump clogged and failing! As soon as Haldex was repaired the jolt/nudge returned! Its not a big jolt - almost like a nudge. I think its probably the rear wheels engaging briefly. Doesn't happen when pulling away in a straight line, only when cornering.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the Haldex comments - it does sometimes give a jolt almost like a small nudge from the rear when pulling away. I drive a lot off road as we live up a steep dirt track, often covered in loose stones and gravel, not to mention snow and ice in the winter! I think from now on I will be changing the Haldex filter and oil every 2 years!

Following the advice above, I stripped off the Throttle Body and it was very gunked up with tarry soot and grime. Perhaps up to 2-3mm thick in places especially on the flap itself, I reckon that its the first time it has been cleaned since new - so 63k miles of goo. The car was tricky to start after reassembly. It took 3 x 10 second spins of the starter to have her start without coughing. Not sure why? Once running it missed a few times then settled into an even idle and pulled fine - took for a 12 mile test and all good - plenty of steady power. Maybe the ECU had to relearn the different parameters from the throttle body butterfly positions? Proper fiddly job with bolts and good advice to stuff a rag in the intercooler pipe as that would be a disaster if anything was sucked into the manifold. Lots of moments where I almost dropped bolts into the bowels of the engine bay! Getting the rubber house back on the throttle body is the definition of persistence!
 
#16 ·
I meant to say the other Yeti foible I fell victim to was a rear spring breaking. Bizarre - few weeks ago - had used the car for shopping, Parked up and didn't go near it for 10 days, walked past it in the drive and noticed that it was sitting lopsided. Looked underneath and O/S Rear spring broken clean in half! One half had pinged off onto the gravel and the other half was sitting at a jaunty angle. Easy job to change - literally took longer to jack up and remove the wheel!. I have also fitted a S/H fullsize spare wheel with the higher boot floor kit, and also bought steel 16" wheels and fitted Toyo Snow Pro higher side wall tyres for the winter.
 
#19 ·
When I bought the Yeti - it had 2 new front tyres - and N/S Rear was pretty new and O/S Rear is only a couple of mm off the wear indicators. I did wonder if the different circumferences might have an effect? Although - over the winter I had all 4 matching snow tyres on my steel rims and I am certain it was doing it then as well so maybe doesnt make any difference. I used to have a Mk 1 Freelander and drastically differently worn tyres were a no - no if you wanted to the transmission and coupling to last anytime!
 
#22 ·
Unlike the Mk1 Freelander, or Isuzu Trooper series 1, transmission “wind up” due to marginally unequal wheel speeds isn’t a problem in the Yeti. As the diffs are “free”, traction control entirely by the ABS, and the 4WD is only engaged when needed due to front wheel slippage. The rest of the time the rears are free-wheeling. More similar to a 2WD (but not quite due to the transmission itself).
 
#20 ·
Wanted to add a follow on to my last update. Well I completed my road trip of 1600 miles from NE Scotland to the South Coast and back via Wales, mostly on motorway, and she didn't miss a beat! No EGR lights no Limp Home which was a huge relief. I can only think that on my first ever motorway trip in March, the EGR must have moved into positions it wasn't used to and maybe stuck momentarily. I used Archoil 6400 as recommended then drove it like I stole it for a few hundred miles. Apart from the engine revving a bit roughly in the 2200 - 2500 rev band when flooring it - it was fine. I have developed a habit of staying in gear way longer than the dash indicator recommends, generally trying to get it over 2k revs on each change, to exercise the EGR and Turbo. Probably losing a couple of MPG but hopefully work out cheaper in the long run. Looking at its MOT history again - it has completed very low milages the 2 years before I bought it. 1500 last year and 3000 the year before, so suspect its been a bit of a chapel car. I'll stick more Archoil in after about 5k miles. Fingers crossed!
 
#21 ·
Sounds like you’re treating it right there Alan. (y)
 
#23 ·
Glad to hear things are improving, I think you must have been through every known Yeti problem. The latest Archoil discount expired a few days ago, but there will be another one in the not too distant future. Mine got through a bottle of 6400-d this weekend, on a day trip to Norwich yesterday it gave me an overall 58 mpg as a thank you.
 
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