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I've never been too concerned about virus infections: I have the flu vaccination and the SARS and Ebola outbreaks hardly affected the UK. However, Corvid 19 is different. Although the numbers of people infected are relatively low with a published death rate of 3%, it does seem to be spreading rapidly. In order to protect Mrs J and myself, I've decided not to volunteer in the Booking Office for the forseeable future. There are three main reasons. I handle a lot of money, which in itself is a carrier of potential hazards, I speak to people face-to-face: the virus is usually passed on by contact, but there is no evidence to confirm it can't be airborne, and finally I'm 70 with T2 diabetes, albeit well-controlled, so I'm vulnerable to infection. I meet people from all over the world and as symptoms don't appear for two weeks after infection, someone could be apparently fit but is actually a carrier.To ensure I wasn't over-reacting, I had a long chat with my sister-in-law, who is a very senior A&E consultant at a major teaching hospital. She confirmed that in the circumstances, I was making the right decision. In many cases, the infection is minor, but as I'm not dependant on a salary, I'm not taking the risk. Life will go on as normal, but being lucky to have a car, I won't go on public transport and I'll avoid crowded places. Lots more walking and cycling next to the sea will become my major activity.

My last concern is that it's all very well for organisations to work to government guidelines, but not all members of the public follow suit. Regular hand washing seems to be the key, but I've seen many people use a toilet, then walk out again without washing. In addition, however clean the hands may be, unless the toilet door is opened using a hand tissue, washing is almost pointless. I appreciate that the tourist industry will be seriously affected, but unfortunately that is beyond anyone's control.

I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong and that Corvid 19 turns out to have been less serious than anticipated, but for the first time since the Cuban crisis in 1961, I am seriously concerned for the future. Good luck everyone.
 

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What’s with people panic buying toilet paper? Don’t understand that at all.
 
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I sympathise with your concerns due to underlying health issues, but to me it seems inevitable that I will come across it and catch it at some stage. If not now, and it does reduce over the summer, then when it returns next autumn. We apparently have no resistance which means 80% or more are likely to catch it unless a vaccine is produced, and realistically that is 18 months off before approval and ramping up production.
I would rather catch it sooner, and have the health service available and waiting to help me, rather than at the peak when it will be overwhelmed, or indeed managing not to catch it for much of the year due to limiting exposure, only to succumb anyway later having worried all year.

Prior to having it, trips and visits will seem risky, can't plan travel or even work commitments etc. After having it no concerns, and I bet there will be some very cheap holidays available this year.

As a lot of cases are mild apparently the big issue could be even knowing I have had it and no longer need to worry about catching it. A quick test to see if people have had and recovered from it would be very useful.

Apart from travellers who have been tested prior to allowing them to travel, the only true record of how many have had it is those who have been to hospital, or treated for it. I would think that it is not 90k who have had it in China really, but 900k or possibly even 9m to generate 90k needing hospital help and the number of deaths seen?
 

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I've never been too concerned about virus infections: I have the flu vaccination and the SARS and Ebola outbreaks hardly affected the UK. However, Corvid 19 is different. Although the numbers of people infected are relatively low with a published death rate of 3%, it does seem to be spreading rapidly. In order to protect Mrs J and myself, I've decided not to volunteer in the Booking Office for the forseeable future. There are three main reasons. I handle a lot of money, which in itself is a carrier of potential hazards, I speak to people face-to-face: the virus is usually passed on by contact, but there is no evidence to confirm it can't be airborne, and finally I'm 70 with T2 diabetes, albeit well-controlled, so I'm vulnerable to infection. I meet people from all over the world and as symptoms don't appear for two weeks after infection, someone could be apparently fit but is actually a carrier.To ensure I wasn't over-reacting, I had a long chat with my sister-in-law, who is a very senior A&E consultant at a major teaching hospital. She confirmed that in the circumstances, I was making the right decision. In many cases, the infection is minor, but as I'm not dependant on a salary, I'm not taking the risk. Life will go on as normal, but being lucky to have a car, I won't go on public transport and I'll avoid crowded places. Lots more walking and cycling next to the sea will become my major activity.

My last concern is that it's all very well for organisations to work to government guidelines, but not all members of the public follow suit. Regular hand washing seems to be the key, but I've seen many people use a toilet, then walk out again without washing. In addition, however clean the hands may be, unless the toilet door is opened using a hand tissue, washing is almost pointless. I appreciate that the tourist industry will be seriously affected, but unfortunately that is beyond anyone's control.

I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong and that Corvid 19 turns out to have been less serious than anticipated, but for the first time since the Cuban crisis in 1961, I am seriously concerned for the future. Good luck everyone.
I agree you have to take care of yourself. Toilets, firstly wash your hands before using the toilet and if possible acquire a paper towel to dry them after, then acquire some toilet tissue which you can use when you vacate the toilet area. Then go to the toilet, then wash your hands again using a paper towel and then leave. You know where your hands have been and where they are going but the uncertainty is what others are doing with their hands.
Ideally you should not mix with people who have the virus. Very few at the moment, but going forward it seems numbers will escalate. Good luck.
 

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As regards the 3% death rate, that is 3% of known, reported cases, I wonder how many unreported cases there are/have been as they would reduce that percentage. I expect most of use will get it, best if not all at the same time.

I used to get a cold or flu every blue moon, but planning conditions at work meant I went from a central area car park pass to having to use the staff bus. Then I had cold after cold, surrounded by coughing and spluttering people on the bus, so Jimmy has probably done the right thing. The worst thing I have seen regarding washing hands was a paramedic who left without washing his hands. I actually pursued him and told him what I thought of his example, something that work colleagues descibe as a good "Hooding".
 

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I would rather catch it sooner, and have the health service available and waiting to help me, rather than at the peak when it will be overwhelmed, or indeed managing not to catch it for much of the year due to limiting exposure, only to succumb anyway later having worried all year.
That makes a lot of sense Ken, I see it from a slightly different angle. As Hood has said in my thread, none of us have any resistance to Covid 19 and most, if not all of us will get it, it is waiting for our turn, I would like my and my children's turn to happen sooner then later so, ( presumably ), we will have built up some or complete resistance to its affect.
( This assuming once had you can't get it again or at least that variant ).

----- and I bet there will be some very cheap holidays available this year.
Yes--and some cheap airline shares--for the brave.

As a lot of cases are mild apparently the big issue could be even knowing I have had it and no longer need to worry about catching it. A quick test to see if people have had and recovered from it would be very useful.
That imo is more of a pressing need right now then a vaccine. I believe there is one British company claiming it has a testing kit available, or very soon. I will try to find its name for anyone interested.

In any case I think, hopefully, these kits will be developed and rolled out for public use reasonably quickly. The issue however is what some might then do or not if they have a positive reading, especially those not showing symptoms.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Unfortunately, the hospitality sector will be very badly affected by the absence of visitors. For example, when I helped on the Santa Specials running the bar for two successive years with Mrs J, by the end of the service we always caught a very bad infection. After the second and last time, we were so ill with heavy colds and sore throats that Christmas was ruined and it took 6 weeks for Mrs J to recover. I assume that it was the hot, humid and confined conditions with lots of snotty kids and adults on board. I wouldn't travel on any train for now, electric, diesel or steam! It would be a drastic move, but as volunteers tend to be older people, as a 'Duty of Care', I'd not allow anyone over 65 and/or with an underlying health condition to work closely with people or money. I seriously hope again that I'm totally wrong and over-reacting - but I fear not.
 

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Unfortunately, the hospitality sector will be very badly affected by the absence of visitors.
A tour guide in Windsor was on radio Berkshire today, they were booked solid, and then the French decided to cancel school trips, and now the tour guide now has no bookings and no payment.
 

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Regular, proper hand washing is the most important self protection action that any of us can take apparently.

But what if we didn't get our hands 'dirty' in the first place? Next time I go to a supermarket, where I must remember to stock up on toilet rolls, or other place where people congregate, I will be wearing GLOVES Ansell VersaTouch 92-200 Nitrile Powder-Free Disposable Gloves Blue Large 100 Pack :)
 

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With shops being cleared of toilet rolls, hand wash and paracetamol, I wonder how long it will be before people are sneaking into hospitals and stealing the hand gel dispensors from the walls.
 

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I wonder how long it will be before people are sneaking into hospitals and stealing the hand gel dispensors from the walls.
Already happening. News today from Northampton General. Bottles of gel being taken from next to patients beds, three dispensers ripped from the wall and others refilling their own bottles from the hospital ones. Makes you proud (NOT).

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"I've seen many people use a toilet, then walk out again without washing".

Men seem to do this far more often than used to be the case. Just laziness?

A coronavirus victim resident in Wuhan was interviewed on radio today. His experience was that the infection was in 3 parts - cold-like symptoms which appeared to be clearing up but then morphed into something more flu-like. The 3rd phase (can't remember if he went through this phase) was pneumonia.
He was still in compulsory quarantine after 40 days.
 

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"I've seen many people use a toilet, then walk out again without washing".

Men seem to do this far more often than used to be the case. Just laziness?

A coronavirus victim resident in Wuhan was interviewed on radio today. His experience was that the infection was in 3 parts - cold-like symptoms which appeared to be clearing up but then morphed into something more flu-like. The 3rd phase (can't remember if he went through this phase) was pneumonia.
He was still in compulsory quarantine after 40 days.
So might that indicate those that have been vaccinated against pneumonia might at least not get to phase 3 or if so symptoms might not be as bad?
 

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I think Jimmy is doing the sensible thing and rather than just reacting to an issue has sort out the advice of someone with more expert knowledge. Some of you may have seen this already but this useful practical advice from someone who knows what he is talking about having been studying coronaviruses for decades.

Dr. James Robb is a consulting pathologist at the National Cancer Institute. Among the first molecular virologists in the world to work on this category of viruses back in the 1970s, he also knows how to translate his expertise into practical advice.

Here's Dr. Robb’s advice to his colleagues:

Date: February 26, 2020 at 2:35:50 PM EST

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you may recall, when I was a professor of pathology at the University of California San Diego, I was one of the first molecular virologists in the world to work on coronaviruses (the 1970s). I was the first to demonstrate the number of genes the virus contained. Since then, I have kept up with the coronavirus field and its multiple clinical transfers into the human population (e.g., SARS, MERS), from different animal sources.

The current projections for its expansion in the US are only probable, due to continued insufficient worldwide data, but it is most likely to be widespread in the US by mid to late March and April.

Here is what I have done and the precautions that I take and will take. These are the same precautions I currently use during our influenza seasons, except for the mask and gloves.:

1) NO HANDSHAKING! Use a fist bump, slight bow, elbow bump, etc.

2) Use ONLY your knuckle to touch light switches. elevator buttons, etc.. Lift the gasoline dispenser with a paper towel or use a disposable glove.

3) Open doors with your closed fist or hip - do not grasp the handle with your hand, unless there is no other way to open the door. Especially important on bathroom and post office/commercial doors.

4) Use disinfectant wipes at the stores when they are available, including wiping the handle and child seat in grocery carts.

5) Wash your hands with soap for 10-20 seconds and/or use a greater than 60% alcohol-based hand sanitizer whenever you return home from ANY activity that involves locations where other people have been.

6) Keep a bottle of sanitizer available at each of your home's entrances. AND in your car for use after getting gas or touching other contaminated objects when you can't immediately wash your hands.

7) If possible, cough or sneeze into a disposable tissue and discard. Use your elbow only if you have to. The clothing on your elbow will contain infectious virus that can be passed on for up to a week or more!


What I have stocked in preparation for the pandemic spread to the US:

1) Latex or nitrile latex disposable gloves for use when going shopping, using the gasoline pump, and all other outside activity when you come in contact with contaminated areas.

Note: This virus is spread in large droplets by coughing and sneezing. This means that the air will not infect you! BUT all the surfaces where these droplets land are infectious for about a week on average - everything that is associated with infected people will be contaminated and potentially infectious. The virus is on surfaces and you will not be infected unless your unprotected face is directly coughed or sneezed upon.

This virus only has cell receptors for lung cells (it only infects your lungs) The only way for the virus to infect you is through your nose or mouth via your hands or an infected cough or sneeze onto or into your nose or mouth.

2) Stock up now with disposable surgical masks and use them to prevent you from touching your nose and/or mouth (We touch our nose/mouth 90X/day without knowing it!). This is the only way this virus can infect you - it is lung-specific. The mask will not prevent the virus in a direct sneeze from getting into your nose or mouth - it is only to keep you from touching your nose or mouth.

3) Stock up now with hand sanitizers and latex/nitrile gloves (get the appropriate sizes for your family). The hand sanitizers must be alcohol-based and greater than 60% alcohol to be effective.

4) Stock up now with zinc lozenges. These lozenges have been proven to be effective in blocking coronavirus (and most other viruses) from multiplying in your throat and nasopharynx. Use as directed several times each day when you begin to feel ANY "cold-like" symptoms beginning. It is best to lie down and let the lozenge dissolve in the back of your throat and nasopharynx. Cold-Eeze lozenges is one brand available, but there are other brands available.

I, as many others do, hope that this pandemic will be reasonably contained, BUT I personally do not think it will be. Humans have never seen this (edited: animal)-associated virus before and have no internal defense against it.

Tremendous worldwide efforts are being made to understand the molecular and clinical virology of this virus. Unbelievable molecular knowledge about the genomics, structure, and virulence of this virus has already been achieved. BUT, there will be NO drugs or vaccines available this year to protect us or limit the infection within us. Only symptomatic support is available.

I hope these personal thoughts will be helpful during this potentially catastrophic pandemic. You are welcome to share.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you Snowgood for posting an excellent article. It's interesting to read about the transmission pathway, but I'd still be concerned about air transmission if a child or adult carrier sneezed near me. I already use Vicks First Defence nasal spray, especially if I'm near someone with a cold or if the first signs of a cold appear. There is no evidence that it protects against all viruses, but I've not had a bad cold for several years. Finally, condoms are apparently selling at a fast rate so people can protect a finger used to press a lift button!
 

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One slight problem there, the pneumonia jab is for a bacterial infection, and this is a viral infection.
Covid is a Viral infection but a 3rd phase pneumonia response to it, I am wondering if that might be bacterial or viral?

However as you mentioned it and a fair point, I must ask my doctor if the pneumonia jab I received was protection against the bacterial or virus type, I'm going to assume bacterial for now.
 
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