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Discussion Starter #1
With the current impetus towards fully Electric Vehicles I've spent some idle moments looking at YouTube videos on the progress of Tesla vehicles/infrastructure in the US - it really looks to me like they have almost "cracked it". Their cars have around 300 miles of range, have an extensive network of rapid charging stations, the performance of the cars is amazing etc etc - they seem to be miles ahead of the opposition. Still a bit "pricey" mind but bound to get more affordable over time I'd have thought.

Although there seem to be quite a few electric vehicles under development by various manufacturers (for UK and elsewhere) I haven't seen any as yet that might be considered to be a reasonable substitute for a Yeti - ie right size, decent ground clearance, reasonable off road capability - including of course 4x4. (Teslas do have 4x4 but I think this is purely configured for on-road performance). I would have thought it would be relatively easy to develop an all-electric 4x4 system configured for moderate off-road use with all the electronic wizardry at their disposal.

In the not too distant future (I'm not holding my breath!) I hope some manufacturer will come up with an EV that might be considered a reasonable substitute for a Yeti - surely there will be good demand for such a vehicle. Anyone heard of any such thing currently under development I might have missed?

Cheers!
Pete
 

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Wheeler Dealers did an electric conversion, they sourced the motor etc from a firm in Kent, from memory it cost £18K. Maybe the way forward is to convert your Yeti or at least try and contact the firm in Kent. Their car was not a 4x4 and the replacement motor was tiny compared to the original so extra storage space under the bonnet.
 

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New Kia Soul EV due in showrooms sometime in April. NOT to be confused with the current electric soul (150 miles) the new one has the same battery/motor/ set up as the E Niro and Hyundai Kona EV. 64Kw battery range All-New Kia Soul EV Specifications & Features | Kia Motors UK approx 280miles (claimed.)
Boot smaller than Yeti though and ground clearance under battery DEFINITELY NOT for off roading and 2WD ONLY!
See here.
or here for UK. Brochure.
 

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Also consider:
- the environmental (CO2 only, not counting child/slave labour in Africa to mine the Lithium) cost of building a new EV car with a reasonable range (100kW battery pack), is around 3 times the CO2 cost of building an IC engined car of equivalent size and performance. Due to the additional CO2 and water that must be used to manufacturer those big batteries.

- comparing new for new, and similar annual mileages on each, it takes between 2 and 4 years usage before the IC car matches the EV car’s overall level of CO2 output. The lower figure if ALL the EV car’s charge electricity is produced from renewables like wind, solar or hydro. Or nuclear? The higher if all from fossil fuel power stations like coal or gas.

- or you could continue running your existing IC car and not buy a new car at all. Of any type. Just maintain the one you’ve got properly. In that scenario the equivalence period before the new EV comes down to your level of CO2 is 5 years (charging from 100% renewables) to 10 years (100% fossil fuel charge power).

- Source: Engineering Explained. (You Tube - look him up). He uses scientific sources, mostly in USA, where he is based. (But drives a UK built Nissan Leaf).

- In other words, by forcing the abandonment of IC cars by 2035, our misguided government may reduce UK’s CO2 output to the atmosphere, at the point of use in UK. But INCREASE global CO2 production from car manufacture by a factor of 3. How does that make any sense from a global warming perspective?
 

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I agree entirely, although I do not have the knowledge to do the calculations you have made. But it makes perfect sense to me. The Government have a bee in their bonnet and the bit between their teeth and i consider are completely misguided.
I want to know what happens when everybody that can't charge at work. gets home in the evening when supper is being cooked in a (possibly 7Kw oven) and then plugs their EV into their 7Kw wall charger. Power cuts anybody??
The entire Global warming thing is pointless until China (if there's anybody left in 12 months time) and Indi a MADE to stop polluting the planet.

It is my personal opinion that various governments have seen global warning as a cash cow. We are being screwed through our wallets all in the name of GW.. It's no good people saying I may be flying to the north instead of driving , but I'll plant 100 trees to counteract it. BOLLOX! A. A 100 trees will probably never get planted and sapplings will take so long to grow big enough to absorb any meaningful amount of Co2 that we will all be fried or drowned by GW by then.
I must get off my high horse the O2 is getting a bit thin at this altitude!;)
 

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I want to know what happens when everybody that can't charge at work. gets home in the evening when supper is being cooked in a (possibly 7Kw oven) and then plugs their EV into their 7Kw wall charger. Power cuts anybody??
The entire Global warming thing is pointless until China (if there's anybody left in 12 months time) and Indi a MADE to stop polluting the planet.
The National Grid have already said they will use plugged in EVs as a source to draw back power from the EVs to support the Grid. In this week’s Auto Express, issue 1613 12-18 Feb 2020, there is a statement from National Grid “With smart charging and vehicle to Grid tech, batteries in EVs can act as storage in the wider energy system, able to respond to supply and demand signals by charging and discharging to and from the grid when needed.”

Fine in theory. That means in a morning, the EVs up the street will have been drained to cook yours and my breakfasts. So when the owners go to drive them away, the cars will only have half the remaining range the owners expected. I quite like that idea.

Only problem is they still haven’t thought through how they will prevent owners from unplugging their EVs as soon as the cars are fully charged? Thus I don’t see the idea being a practical solution in reality.
 

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I would have thought that some of the electrical wiz kids on the forum would be quite capable of putting something in the final cable that plugs into the car to prevent reverse current being possible. They might be able to make quite a business out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also consider:
- the environmental (CO2 only, not counting child/slave labour in Africa to mine the Lithium) cost of building a new EV car with a reasonable range (100kW battery pack), is around 3 times the CO2 cost of building an IC engined car of equivalent size and performance. Due to the additional CO2 and water that must be used to manufacturer those big batteries.

- comparing new for new, and similar annual mileages on each, it takes between 2 and 4 years usage before the IC car matches the EV car’s overall level of CO2 output. The lower figure if ALL the EV car’s charge electricity is produced from renewables like wind, solar or hydro. Or nuclear? The higher if all from fossil fuel power stations like coal or gas.

- or you could continue running your existing IC car and not buy a new car at all. Of any type. Just maintain the one you’ve got properly. In that scenario the equivalence period before the new EV comes down to your level of CO2 is 5 years (charging from 100% renewables) to 10 years (100% fossil fuel charge power).

- Source: Engineering Explained. (You Tube - look him up). He uses scientific sources, mostly in USA, where he is based. (But drives a UK built Nissan Leaf).

- In other words, by forcing the abandonment of IC cars by 2035, our misguided government may reduce UK’s CO2 output to the atmosphere, at the point of use in UK. But INCREASE global CO2 production from car manufacture by a factor of 3. How does that make any sense from a global warming perspective?
Flintstone - you make some excellent points here and I must admit I didn't realise the CO2 and other environmental costs of producing a Lithium battery were so high. I've always assumed that the next car after my Yeti would probably be an EV in the not too distant future but, in view of your comments, I think I'd now look towards deferring this until technology advances and EV's can be produced on a more environmentally friendly basis.

Having said that, I'm quite optimistic that such technological advances will happen reasonably quickly. Reasons include:-
  • I was quite sceptical a few years ago about achieving a meaningful volume of non-fossil fuel generation for National Grid but I see the volume of sustainables (wind,solar,nuclear) now exceed 50% of the total. No doubt this will continue to rise.
  • Given, as you say, the production of EV's (Lithium batteries in particular) is so damaging from CO2 and environmental perspectives, I cannot see that this would be allowed to continue for mass EV production and technological developments will surely have to be found to improve this. With the increasingly rapid "writing on the wall" for IC engines (not least the 2035 deadline) I'm sure the amount of research/investment from the combined might of motor manufacturers and oil companies will now mushroom and SHOULD result in a more sustainable battery solution in the not too distant future. I see there are already examples of possible alternatives emerging such as IBM's battery development from seawater! (see this:- Free of Heavy Metals, New Battery Design Could Alleviate Environmental Concerns | IBM Research Blog )
 

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Most EVs PHEVs have mobile 'phone app allowing the car to START charging at a time when cheap leccy comes on stream, surely it is not beyond the wit of man to also devise something that disconnects it when fully charged?.
If the electricity companies are going to turn vampire and suck the charge out of cars, is your leccy meter going into reverse?? Also how will they know WHEN to stop draining the car?
I understood that they were, in some way, going use old car motive batteries that had lost enough efficiency to drive the host car, but could still be used to store SOME electricity?
 

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Flintstone - you make some excellent points here and I must admit I didn't realise the CO2 and other environmental costs of producing a Lithium battery were so high. I've always assumed that the next car after my Yeti would probably be an EV in the not too distant future but, in view of your comments, I think I'd now look towards deferring this until technology advances and EV's can be produced on a more environmentally friendly basis.
Indeed Pete! My eyes were opened when the senior technician at my BMW dealer pointed out, when my 330d was in for its second Takata airbag recall, that I could continue running my 330d for another 10 years (its already 15 years old) before it equalled the CO2 output of the i8 in the showroom. (The i8 is a particularly bad CO2 emitter as it has a large proportion of carbon fibre in its chassis construction.)

We can hope that as tech improves, the CO2 cost of battery construction will fall. Or hydrogen fuel cell propulsion replaces batteries. Using H2 as a means to store power produced by wind farms, rather than batteries. (Hydrogen fuelled internal combustion engines are not a good way to go due to the levels of NOx they produce).

The stuff about "going green" due to "zero emissions" cars is pure misleading propaganda, created by car manufacturer marketing depts. Whose only objective is to sell more new electric cars for those manufacturers who have invested heavily in EV tech and need to recoup the costs and dang the environment. There is nothing "zero emissions" about such cars except at the point of use.

It is our duty as consumers to challenge environmental campaigners who have been brainwashed by such false propaganda to justify their stance on "whole of life" CO2 costs of the "solutions" they are promoting. And lobby government to take a wider view than the narrow, misguided path they have embarked on at the moment. Although I fear that the latter paths are the habits of career politicians (on all sorts of issues).
 
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