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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
+In today’s “other news”, from one of the UK legal firms involved in the VW emissions-gate scandal.
In our last update we informed you that we had concluded the Preliminary Issues trial. We expect the Judgement to be handed down in the coming weeks. We’ll keep you updated as soon as we have more news on this.

You may have seen in the news recently that the German class action, involving 260,000 VW customers affected by the emission scandal, settled last month. This is the first time VW has settled a claim at volume in an EU country and is therefore an encouraging development for claimants involved in litigation across Europe.

VW’s Chief Legal Advisor, Manfred Doss has said that VW now wish to “make peace with its customers”. We hope that VW would have the same aim with its UK customer involved in this litigation.

If the current situation remains when the Judgement in the Preliminary Issues is handed down, then we expect the Judgement Hearing will be conducted by telephone rather than face to face. Therefore we do not expect any significant delay to your claim due to COVID-19.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
In the German case, there were some 260,000 claimants, with the total settlement thought to represent circa €3000 each on average. Though how much each claimant might receive will be dependent on make, model and age of vehicle involved. (Also of course, how much the legal costs take out from the total).
 

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The ONLY people who will make any money out of this will be the legal profession!
 
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I tried to register but was told that i could not "claim" or be on the list (i will see if hopefully i kept messages) because of the date i purchased the car (i think, will have to look)
I think it said that by that date everyone should have knew about the "scandal"
I was aware of it and that was the reason i was not buying a vw to replace the Golf, i mentioned this to the sales rep, but he never said the engine in the Yeti i was after and bought was affected or had had the fix

If anything does come of compo in the UK i will defo be having a word with the dealership.
 

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With all the scams going around NEVER click on a link in an emal or message unless you are sure it's genuine. Flintstone's post is genuine but near the bottom is a link prompting you to click here. Hover the curser over the link but don't click it. The true web address will show somewhere on the screen, usually at the bottom.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The link was to a pdf from a genuine firm of well-known UK solicitors. Albeit better known for their ambulance chasing style than anything else. But onlyme is correct, I should not have left the link in there anyway, as some of the information in the background pdf is meant to be for registered claimants only. As opposed to the remaining text which is from the public email. The link has been removed now.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I was aware of it and that was the reason i was not buying a vw to replace the Golf, i mentioned this to the sales rep, but he never said the engine in the Yeti i was after and bought was affected or had had the fix
Probably didn’t know himself that anything with a Skoda badge is really a VW in Czech clothes.
 

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+In today’s “other news”, from one of the UK legal firms involved in the VW emissions-gate scandal.
In our last update we informed you that we had concluded the Preliminary Issues trial. We expect the Judgement to be handed down in the coming weeks. We’ll keep you updated as soon as we have more news on this.

You may have seen in the news recently that the German class action, involving 260,000 VW customers affected by the emission scandal, settled last month. This is the first time VW has settled a claim at volume in an EU country and is therefore an encouraging development for claimants involved in litigation across Europe.

VW’s Chief Legal Advisor, Manfred Doss has said that VW now wish to “make peace with its customers”. We hope that VW would have the same aim with its UK customer involved in this litigation.

If the current situation remains when the Judgement in the Preliminary Issues is handed down, then we expect the Judgement Hearing will be conducted by telephone rather than face to face. Therefore we do not expect any significant delay to your claim due to COVID-19.
that's interesting I have had no email from S & G so if we can finally get closure and similar compensation as Germany I for one would be happy
 
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Further to my reply yesterday my solicitors have written to me and I Quote
We concluded our preliminary hearing which took place in December 2019. The court confirmed that at the preliminary hearing it will consider whether the VW vehicles within this Group Litigation were installed with what is known as a ‘defeat device’. The judge reserved his judgment and since further delayed. We hope to have the decision by the end of the month.
On conclusion of the preliminary hearing, the barristers representing the Claimants remained of the opinion that the group litigation maintained good prospects on this point.

So I think that there is 86000 claimants in the UK
 

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Should you wish/have the time and patience :)



 

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Discussion Starter #12
Following on from Snowgood’s news feed in #10, here is an excerpt from today’s summary from Slater Gordon:
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Success at the High Court
We’re delighted to inform you that Judgment in the Preliminary Issues trial that took place last December has now been handed down and that the Claimants have been successful on both issues the Court was asked to consider.

Although this victory is an important step towards concluding this claim, it’s not the end of the litigation.

Why is this important?
Success in the Preliminary Issues is important because the crux of the claims you’re bringing is that VW deceived you as to the compliance of your vehicles with EU Emissions Regulations. This is because, we argue, your engines contained software called a defeat device which sensed when the vehicle was being tested and so artificially reduced emissions in order to pass that test. To be successful in establishing deceit and the other claims our clients are bringing, one issue the Claimants needed to show was that the software was in fact a defeat device. VW’s position has always been that when the law was properly considered, the software did not meet the legal definition of a defeat device.

To resolve this issue, the court was asked to consider two issues of law which were as follows:

  1. Is the German Regulator’s decisions that the software was a ‘defeat device’ binding on the English High Court; and
  2. Does the fact that the engine operates in different modes during the emissions test mean that it contained a ‘defeat device’ under the Regulations?
The answers we were seeking, and the answers the Court has now given on both issues, was “yes”.
This means that the English court considers itself bound by the German Regulator’s finding that the software was a defeat device. However, even if that’s wrong, the court also decided the question for itself and from the evidence it has seen, considers the software to be a defeat device.

Criticism of VW
The Judge was also critical of VW’s actions in denying that the software was a defeat device. He found that VW’s actions in not appealing the German Regulator’s decision, when it had the ability to, and then mounting a defence to the same accusation in this litigation was an ‘abuse of process’. The Judge variously considered the Defence mounted by VW as “specious”, “hopeless” and “absurd” and concluded that the existence of the defeat device software was a “fundamental subversion” of the emissions tests.

What will happen next?
We don’t know what VW’s next steps will be, but it’s possible that they will look to appeal this decision. The fact that the English High Court considers itself bound by the German Regulator’s decision has significant implications for VW in litigation its facing across the EU. This is particularly so when VW is still so adamant, based on its public statements, that it has done nothing wrong.
The Court’s finding that the software is a defeat device confirms that your claim is on a solid legal foundation as we approach the next potential phase of the litigation: to establish that VW deceived each of its customers and that they deserve to be properly compensated for that wrongdoing.

It’s time for VW to Settle
In our view, VW’s continued denial of its liability to its UK customers and refusal to offer adequate compensation is, to adopt language used by the Judge, absurd. That view is only reinforced by the comprehensiveness of our victory in the Preliminary Issues trial.

We intend to immediately press VW to engage constructively and urgently in a dialogue to resolve this claim and deliver proper compensation to its impacted customers. We’ll be making those calls publicly and through the court process. However, as I’m sure you will appreciate, only VW can pay compensation and settlement can only be achieved with their agreement.

Given that we don’t know how VW will react, we’ll be forced to continue to advance the litigation for now.
 

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Suppose someone exchanged a Yeti with the fix for a newer Yeti with a Euro 6 engine, claiming they were worried about the former's longevity, then sold the latter and moved to another model, would they be included in the claim?
 

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Suppose someone exchanged a Yeti with the fix for a newer Yeti with a Euro 6 engine, claiming they were worried about the former's longevity, then sold the latter and moved to another model, would they be included in the claim?
I was told i could not claim because i think (will check) the date i purchased the car i should have been aware of all the scandal.
I am sure there was a cut off date for purchases.

edit, see what you mean now. I think that you had to register with them, but still a valid point for claim.
See my post 4, i was aware of the vw scandal and informed salesman but he did not inform me the car was included in the scandal.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Suppose someone exchanged a Yeti with the fix for a newer Yeti with a Euro 6 engine, claiming they were worried about the former's longevity, then sold the latter and moved to another model, would they be included in the claim?
The basis of the group action claims, are not about the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the retro fix. Nor the impact of the Fix on longevity. By the time the Fix was ready to be rolled out, the presence of the defeat device software was public knowledge.

The claim relates more to the fact you unwittingly bought a car in the first place that VW had knowingly fitted with the test “defeat device” in its software. Either you would not have bought such a car had the presence of the defeat device been known. Or that when the presence of the device became public knowledge, then either the car was rendered unsaleable, or its value was reduced sufficiently that you would have suffered a consequential loss when you did manage to sell it. Basically that VW lied to you as a customer. While at the same time the principle of caveat emptor could not have applied, because at the time, there was no conceivable way that you could have known that the defeat device existed. What you may or may not have replaced the car with, does not enter into the picture.

The firm of solicitors I know of, Slater Gordon, originally indicated that the time window to register as a claimant was limited. That you either registered as a claimant at that time, or the opportunity would be lost. I see now though that some other firms involved are still advertising for fresh claimants? That could be because they now sniff a victory? I do not know if Slater Gordon are currently still open for new claimants to join or not?

Every claimant who initially applied to join the Slater Gordon claim, had to undergo a lengthy fact establishment process. To asses if each case was eligible. That included exact dates when you bought the car, with evidence such as purchase receipts, etc. Plus lots of questions about your attitude to the Defeat Device, and whether you subsequently had difficulty selling the car, or were obliged to keep it because of its tarnished image. By no means everyone who applied were accepted into the claim. Only those who met ALL the eligibility criteria. Hence why there are a lot fewer claimants than VW group sold affected cars.
 

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The basis of the group action claims, are not about the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the retro fix. Nor the impact of the Fix on longevity. By the time the Fix was ready to be rolled out, the presence of the defeat device software was public knowledge.

The claim relates more to the fact you unwittingly bought a car in the first place that VW had knowingly fitted with the test “defeat device” in its software. Then that either you would not have bought such a car had the presence of the defeat device been known. Or that when the presence of the device became public knowledge, then either the car was rendered unsaleable, or its value was reduced sufficiently that you would have suffered a consequential loss when you did manage to sell it. Basically that VW lied to you as a customer. While at the same time the principle of caveat emptor could not have applied, because at the time, there was no conceivable way that you could have known that the defeat device existed. What you may or may not have replaced the car with, does not enter into the picture.

The firm of solicitors I know of, Slater Gordon, originally indicated that the time window to register as a claimant was limited. That you either registered as a claimant at that time, or the opportunity would be lost. I see now though that some other firms involved are still advertising for fresh claimants? That could be because they now sniff a victory? I do not know if Slater Gordon are currently still open for new claimants to join or not?
As i said, when i was discussing the purchase of my car i was aware of the VW scandal (and that VAG group included Skoda etc) and i mentioned this to the salesman, who never admitted or confirmed that the engine in the car i was buying was affected.
Slater Gordon would not accept me on the claim due to a time limit on purchase and claiming that at that date i should have known.
I do hope that there can be further claims as i was 100% not aware that the car i was buying was affected.
If there are no further cases and SG claims are successful i will be contacting the dealership for compensation or if no success Skoda UK.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Hi Dutchman,
That all seems a fair point to the layman. My post at #16 was specifically in response to Jimmy’s question. I have noted what you said in your earlier post. By being a “client” myself however, not a legal expert, I can only say what I understand of the scenarios - NOT a definite legal definition. People who earn a large multiple of my salary are the ones who do that :)

As I understand it though, then the principle of caveat emptor does apply, once the knowledge of the existence of the Defeat Device in certain VW engines became public knowledge. It has also been very widely known for over 20 years now, that anything with a Skoda badge made since the 1990s, is really a VW in Czech clothes. Hence the old phrase well known in the used car trade: “If you want a VW that gets closer to living up to the advertising hype for reliability, then buy that VW with Skoda badges on it.” That became the norm, because the build quality at the Mlada Boleslav assembly lines was frequently better than in Wolfsburg. (A bit like Nissan in Sunderland, compared to Japan).

Methinks also, that the fact the “salesman” at the dealer where you bought your Yeti (I presume that was a franchised dealer?) neglected to tell you that your Skoda had a VW engine, says more about the nature of typical dealer sales people than anything else. There’s a clue in the job title. They are (in the main, always exceptions here and there) sales people. Not car people. They are paid to know all about and advise on all the ins and outs of the myriad of finance deals on the market, forwards, backwards, inside out and sideways. They frequently get tested on that subject, by the FCA, in order to qualify and be licensed to sign up people to finance contracts. They don’t get tested on their car knowledge. Except by customers.

To a majority, in my experience, the cars they are selling are simply “metal” to be shifted. Hence why they can and do frequently shift from franchise to franchise, to get a better deal for themselves. Rather than gain any depth of experience in any one particular manufacturer/assembler and its models. Same applies in many non-specialist used car outlets. Who trade in a myriad of marques and models. They don’t have, or need, any detail knowledge of the the cars. Particularly car supermarkets. I suspect they would argue that knowing what you want, or need, is your job. They are just there to assist you in the best way to make the purchase? Same way a few years ago, very few sales people would ask what the prospective owner’s usage pattern would be, when they came in looking for a diesel car. “Diesel engine sir? Yes we have several excellent models to choose from.” No mention that if you only ever did short journeys, you would be putting the car through “diesel heIl”. Owners had to get clued up on that for themselves. (Not applicable in your case, I just cite that as an example of what I mean about the sales process).

There are many notable exceptions here and there. Those are the “car nuts” though, who tend to be found in smaller dealerships, or non-franchised marque specialists. Car Nuts in big franchised dealerships often have to swat up on the cars in their own time, rather than in work time.

Furthermore, sales people get training in the psychology of closing the sale. That tends to mean that any information that comes into the pre-sale conversation that might jeopardise the sale, and cause you to walk away, then they will remain silent on. They don’t lie (like VW did), just remain silent on an issue, to avoid losing the sale. So that caveat emptor applies. Just like Estate Agents selling houses, it’s what they don’t tell you that you need to watch out for. Not what they do. Here I cite the normal reaction when a customer visits a dealer showroom to ask about a well known generic issue with a particular model. Unless it is the subject of an official safety recall (which the emissions issue was not), the first reaction will always be words to the effect of “We know nothing about that”. Because admission of knowledge might jeopardise a sale. It’s the nature of the beast that buyers who walk into a showroom are, or should be aware of.

Good luck with your retrospective claim though, if you do make one. It will be very interesting to follow how you get on. Remember that the current group action claims are against the VW group though. Not the dealers. Quite separate business entities. VW didn’t tell them about the Defeat Device either. Until after it became public. So technically they are “innocent victims” of VW’s mass deception. Same way that the owners were. ;) :rolleyes:
 

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Hi Dutchman,
That all seems a fair point to the layman. My post at #16 was specifically in response to Jimmy’s question. I have noted what you said in your earlier post. By being a “client” myself however, not a legal expert, I can only say what I understand of the scenarios - NOT a definite legal definition. People who earn a large multiple of my salary are the ones who do that :)

As I understand it though, then the principle of caveat emptor does apply, once the knowledge of the existence of the Defeat Device in certain VW engines became public knowledge. It has also been very widely known for over 20 years now, that anything with a Skoda badge made since the 1990s, is really a VW in Czech clothes. Hence the old phrase well known in the used car trade: “If you want a VW that gets closer to living up to the advertising hype for reliability, then buy that VW with Skoda badges on it.” That became the norm, because the build quality at the Mlada Boleslav assembly lines was frequently better than in Wolfsburg. (A bit like Nissan in Sunderland, compared to Japan).

Methinks also, that the fact the “salesman” at the dealer where you bought your Yeti (I presume that was a franchised dealer?) neglected to tell you that your Skoda had a VW engine, says more about the nature of typical dealer sales people than anything else. There’s a clue in the job title. They are (in the main, always exceptions here and there) sales people. Not car people. They are paid to know all about and advise on all the ins and outs of the myriad of finance deals on the market, forwards, backwards, inside out and sideways. They frequently get tested on that subject, by the FCA, in order to qualify and be licensed to sign up people to finance contracts. They don’t get tested on their car knowledge. Except by customers.

To a majority, in my experience, the cars they are selling are simply “metal” to be shifted. Hence why they can and do frequently shift from franchise to franchise, to get a better deal for themselves. Rather than gain any depth of experience in any one particular manufacturer/assembler and its models. Same applies in many non-specialist used car outlets. Who trade in a myriad of marques and models. They don’t have, or need, any detail knowledge of the the cars. Particularly car supermarkets. I suspect they would argue that knowing what you want, or need, is your job. They are just there to assist you in the best way to make the purchase? Same way a few years ago, very few sales people would ask what the prospective owner’s usage pattern would be, when they came in looking for a diesel car. “Diesel engine sir? Yes we have several excellent models to choose from.” No mention that if you only ever did short journeys, you would be putting the car through “diesel heIl”. Owners had to get clued up on that for themselves. (Not applicable in your case, I just cite that as an example of what I mean about the sales process).

There are many notable exceptions here and there. Those are the “car nuts” though, who tend to be found in smaller dealerships, or non-franchised marque specialists. Car Nuts in big franchised dealerships often have to swat up on the cars in their own time, rather than in work time.

Furthermore, sales people get training in the psychology of closing the sale. That tends to mean that any information that comes into the pre-sale conversation that might jeopardise the sale, and cause you to walk away, then they will remain silent on. They don’t lie (like VW did), just remain silent on an issue, to avoid losing the sale. So that caveat emptor applies. Just like Estate Agents selling houses, it’s what they don’t tell you that you need to watch out for. Not what they do. Here I cite the normal reaction when a customer visits a dealer showroom to ask about a well known generic issue with a particular model. Unless it is the subject of an official safety recall (which the emissions issue was not), the first reaction will always be words to the effect of “We know nothing about that”. Because admission of knowledge might jeopardise a sale. It’s the nature of the beast that buyers who walk into a showroom are, or should be aware of.

Good luck with your retrospective claim though, if you do make one. It will be very interesting to follow how you get on. Remember that the current group action claims are against the VW group though. Not the dealers. Quite separate business entities. VW didn’t tell them about the Defeat Device either. Until after it became public. So technically they are “innocent victims” of VW’s mass deception. Same way that the owners were. ;) :rolleyes:
It is a bit of a mess, in my situation Yes i knew/was aware of the VW "defeat device", Yes i knew Skoda had VW engines.
I mentioned to the salesman that was the reason i was not getting another VW (best car i ever had, 15 years owned from new and never a repair other than services,tyres, wiper blades), i presumed that he had knowledge of what he was selling me and SHOULD have informed me that the engine in the Yeti was one that was affected, if he had done that i would not have bought it.
So in reference to date of being able to claim and knowledge of engines affected, i was not aware the engine i had was one of them when i bought the car.

As an aside to the above as all VAG knew about this imo there should have been some kind of flag on all the cars affected to then warn prospective buyers.
I bet if i would have took it back the next week to px for a different car they would have said i would be getting less money as px as the engine has the defeat device in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I presumed that he had knowledge of what he was selling me and SHOULD have informed me that the engine in the Yeti was one that was affected, if he had done that i would not have bought it.
Even if he did know about the engine type, which I have my doubts on, I suspect he would also have figured that if he told you, he would lose the sale. So that’s why he stayed silent. They are paid to meet their monthly sales targets after all. Not for their honesty?
 
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