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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mrs J now has an Android 'phone, so I've downloaded the VAG DPF app. After a 95 mile journey at legal speeds yesterday, these are the key values: soot mass 14.37g, 141 miles and 279 minutes since last regen, oil ash residue 5.9g, soot mass measured 0.48g. I've only just found out about the bar display showing % full, so I didn't note the % value. I understand that passive regeneration occurs during a run, so does this remove significant amounts of soot? Which value indicates the condition of the DPF and at what level is it 'full'? As we cover a relatively low mileage for a diesel I'm keen to know that I'm doing enough longer runs to keep the DPF in good order. Thank you in advance for your help. Jimmy
 

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oil ash residue is what left in the DPF
don't know what the full figure is mine displays in litres.
Passive regens happen for me on long journeys when the engine is working hard, doesn't seem to remove much but I've not checked soot figures closely whilst driving.....
When the graph reaches 100% it will do a full regen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's helpful and thanks Idleness. When we next go out on a long journey, I'll ask Mrs Jimmy to drive and I'll watch the app.
 

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Does this work with just the phone, or do you need to buy a plug for the socket?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Ken. I bought an onboard diagnostics scanner, OBD2, which plugs into the diagnostics socket under the dash on the driver's side just above the right knee. Mine cost £13.29 from Amazon. It communicates with the Android phone app via wi-fi. The VAG DPF app cost £3.30. It isn't available for the iPad, although there are other iPad apps which can carry out all sorts of clever stuff, including cancelling error codes etc. I'm only interested in the DPF condition, hence the VAG app.
 

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I finally got my ELM327 diagnostic port plugged in about 3 months ago and communicating with the Android VAG DPF app via Bluetooth. Since then I’ve been gradually building up a sense of values and what is really happening. Usually when Wilma is driving, but on occasions with the phone wedged firmly between the dials, masking the Maxidot display.

Being edited...…..
 

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Rest of above post after needing to change devices:

The difference between calculated soot mass and the measured soot mass is interesting. measured always seems lower in my case.

The app settings also include a section on how frequently the readings update. Longer intervals help save battery power if not running on charger. Can't recall what the other worthwhile settings are called exactly. But the option that switches on the rate of soot deposition (in purple at top right corner) is one of the most useful. As is the active display that shows green arrows in the DPF symbol at upper centre.

Normally the DPF symbol is grey (with the green arrows if you have the active display setting on), but during a regen turns bright red (like the DPF itself, if you could see it?).

Highest Calculated Soot Mass I've seen is in the 30s (g) but may depend what units you have selected in Settings. Reducing to low single figures after a regen.

The rate of soot lay down is fascinating. As you would expect when accelerating hard, that rate goes up. I've seen the high 50s mg/mi. I had expected a long motorway drive would achieve more passive soot burn. But that only seems to happen when the revs are prolonged and steady between 2500 and 3000 rpm, but more crucially when the exhaust gas / DPF input temperature exceeds 250-300 degrees. But the engine has to be working that bit harder, like a long uphill stretch for that to happen. Then the rate of soot deposition goes negative. As it burns off soot, but only at a rate similar to the range of deposition rate values.

On our car (8 years and 200,000 miles old on its original DPF), when the % full gets into the 75-80% range, then an active regen gets triggered. Even on a long motorway run, slightly to my surprise. Then the post-combustion fuel injects kicks in (the three readings at the base of the display), as the ECU injects extra fuel during the exhaust stroke to increase that crucial exhaust temperature. The exhaust gas temperature shoots over 600 degrees at DPF input and the soot deposition rate goes into high negatives, -1000 to -1250 g/mi having been seen at 50mph on a long run with the engine around 2500rpm. Till the %full drops back to single figures after a few minutes and everything goes back to "normal".

Overall conclusions so far:
- slightly surprised how ineffective running for long periods and medium to higher revs is at reducing soot mass. Some reduction, but nowhere near as much as during a proper regen when post-combustion injection is raising gas temperature. More like little or no soot deposition in those conditions.
- those DPF temperatures really do get seriously hot!
- Those proper regens are really very effective, provided not interrupted.
- I seem to be getting those regens, of which I was previously unaware, between 250 and 400 miles of driving, depending on journey patterns. At least one per tankful of fuel. Sometimes two if a lot of short journeys and cold starts.

Still a little early to reach any other conclusions. But quite enlightening so far.
 
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I have what is maybe a stupid question....Does Vag dpf only recognise active regen as I have never seen a passive regen even when I have belted it down the Mway after an interupted active regen? Or does my 150 engine only support active regen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks Flintstone for such a detailed description. You have pointed out features I wasn’t aware of so on the next drive I will watch the display closely.
 

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I have what is maybe a stupid question....Does Vag dpf only recognise active regen as I have never seen a passive regen even when I have belted it down the Mway after an interupted active regen? Or does my 150 engine only support active regen?
I occasionally see a passive regen but only when the DPF temps are up in the 300+ range.
It will happen if you drive hard up a lot of hills.
Motorway driving you will need to be at 2500rpm+ to make sure it happens, 2500rpm in 6th is about 85-90 in my car.........Fine in Germany....
 

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Motorway driving you will need to be at 2500rpm+ to make sure it happens, 2500rpm in 6th is about 85-90 in my car.........Fine in Germany....
There aren't many places even in Germany that you can legally go that fast 130 KPH is only 80.7 so you would need a de restricted road. Also best to try it on a Sunday when the lorries are banned, but that is going to be changed as they are having problems providing enough parking spaces for so many lorries waiting for Monday.
 

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Thanks Flintstone for such a detailed description. You have pointed out features I wasn’t aware of so on the next drive I will watch the display closely.
Some of the (best) features I described are only activated if you switch them on in settings. Things like the numbers for the current rate of soot deposition, that appears in purple in the very top right corner. The green arrows that show the gas flow through the DPF symbol. The DPF turning bright red when a regen is ongoing. Those latter two seem to go hand in hand with the same setting. Problem is I can’t recall now exactly what those settings were called, but the settings My app now has ticked are:
View extra data - ON.
Minimum update time (30 secs) - I chose the longest interval to save phone battery. Avoids having to hit “Refresh” constantly. Shorter time intervals are possible.
Enable auto update on start - ON. connects itself to the ELM327 plug in device when you first start the app.
Power off Bluetooth/WiFi on exit - ON. saves battery.
Charge Rating reference - Distance (I don’t understand what that one does?)
Screen orientation - portrait
App Theme - blue
Distance units - miles
View Notification bar icon - ON. Reminds me when the app is still on in background.

View extra data also means the engine type is displayed at the base margin of the display. E.G. CFHA

I’m currently on Release 2.28.9
 
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I occasionally see a passive regen but only when the DPF temps are up in the 300+ range.
It will happen if you drive hard up a lot of hills.
Motorway driving you will need to be at 2500rpm+ to make sure it happens, 2500rpm in 6th is about 85-90 in my car.........Fine in Germany....
I’m interpreting a passive regen as when the rate of soot deposition goes negative. I.e when it is burning off soot faster than laying more down. I think that only shows in the display when you have Extra Data turned ON in Settings.

That only happens in the circumstances that Idleness describes. I was mildly surprised to find how infrequent those are. I had imagined that regular motorway speeds would be burning off soot. But not so. Just laying it down at a very slow rate between 0 and 10 mg/mile. Although you can trigger the high enough revs, gas flow, and DPF input gas temperature by dropping to 4th at 60mph ish. But even that only drives the temp high enough IF the engine is also working hard enough. Like travelling up a long hill fully loaded. I would imagine towing would give it enough load. No other indication of a “passive” soot burn or regen. I guess that’s why it’s called “passive” :smile:

During an Active regen, the DPF symbol at centre top of the display turns red. And the three lowest data indicators in the display for “post injection” show values for how much fuel is being injected on the post-combustion exhaust stroke. That gets the DPF input gas temp way over 600 degrees and takes the soot deposition rate into -1200 to -1300 mg/mile territory. The percentage full yellow stripe then drops dramatically. During normal periods the post-injection figures remain zero.
 
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I tend to agree with what Flinstone says....it seems that passive regens are extremely rare due to temps not being reached. 600degrees+ on mine too for active regen. This is why I asked my stupid question.
 

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Question not stupid at all. :smile: took me a while to figure out what was going on properly. As distinct from what I had imagined was happening before I got the app display working with the Extra Data ON. Even now, I’m not sure if I’m reading everything correctly. But if two of us are interpreting the same way, that’s a good start.

When I’ve got a chunk more running and values in my head under normal running conditions, I may try seeing if there is a detectable difference in any of the figures reached, when there is a dose of Archoil 6400 D-max in the fuel. But that may be a couple of months yet. And dependent on me getting my hands on the Yeti for long enough at a stretch. As I had last week.

Now wishing I had a similar app for the BMW. :sad:
 

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Just lifted this from another site
VAG DISESEL PARTICULATE FILTERS

Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.

Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.

The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.

During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.

Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.

The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.

If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.

The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.

At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.

At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.

Operating Status System Response

45% DPF Load Level 1
Normal Regeneration

50% DPF Load Level 2
Regeneration at maximum exhaust temperatures

55% DPF Load DPF lamp
Regeneration from 60 km/h onwards
("See operating manual")

75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp
Torque limitation, EGR deactivation,

Regeneration via VAG tester only
95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This is such an informative thread so thank you. I now assume my Italian tune ups if we haven’t driven far is of less use than watching the VAG DPF app and going for a longer drive if near a regen.
 
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This is such an informative thread so thank you. I now assume my Italian tune ups if we haven’t driven far is of less use than watching the VAG DPF app and going for a longer drive if near a regen.
Even better, use Millers or Archoil for every fill, you'll see the distance between regens increase, the rate of DPF fill will slow down, the rate of ash will decrease and you will get greater distances between regens. My record is just over 429 miles, all motorway, constantly moving.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi WFM I've been using Archoil since April. No differences noticed but it's added for long-term protection.
 
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Observations from today after some hard driving:
Passive regens do reduce both calculated and measured soot levels but only a small amount.
They also seem to start when exhaust temp is above 325C

Archoil has increased my average distance between active regen by 30 miles.

J
 
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